tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post2991758227580822318..comments2024-01-19T08:08:23.595-08:00Comments on All of My Faults Are Stress-Related: So you want to work with undergrads: II. Job applicationsKimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07738706550175991130noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-48866811676359506522008-05-01T19:58:00.000-07:002008-05-01T19:58:00.000-07:00I know a number of professors (at undergrad school...I know a number of professors (at undergrad schools) who do consulting work, too.<BR/><BR/>There's one other thing that I thought of. This academic gig. It, ummmm... doesn't pay very well. It pays better than being unemployed during a downturn in a cyclical industry, but when industry's up... the salary for a new B.S. is double the starting salary for a new assistant professor. I've known people with government agency jobs who turned down academic job offers after seeing the salary. That might explain why I've seen so few applications featuring industry experience.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738706550175991130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-20616202576184688212008-05-01T18:50:00.000-07:002008-05-01T18:50:00.000-07:00Sorry, I think my previous comment was not well-th...Sorry, I think my previous comment was not well-thought out, was more a spur of the moment reaction to something else - and it's been a long day. Most of the profs I've known have developed industry experience as part of their research after getting their academic positions - and as consultants. I don't know very much about people who already have industry experience applying for the jobs I thought you were talking about.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I think these posts of yours are invaluable, and I'm sure they will help people.Silver Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131032620978696727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-25027633092121632242008-05-01T17:50:00.000-07:002008-05-01T17:50:00.000-07:00My experience comes from a time when there weren't...My experience comes from a time when there weren't many jobs in either oil & gas or in mining - and for at least a couple searches, experience in the oil industry was a big minus. (They weren't petroleum-related positions, however - it may have been different if we had been hiring a structural geologist or a stratigrapher/sedimentologist.)<BR/><BR/>But keep in mind that these are liberal arts colleges, and most of the experience was at a private liberal arts college. I know a number of people who moved from petroleum research jobs into academia at research universities, and I can think of at least one research university prof who worked in mining (though before getting his PhD).<BR/><BR/>My current institution is much more open to industry experience than the private school was.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738706550175991130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-32585124757292921122008-05-01T17:24:00.000-07:002008-05-01T17:24:00.000-07:00I know a bunch of people who have just finished un...I know a bunch of people who have just finished undergrad geology degrees, and about 85% of them are now working in industry. Half of those who are still studying are doing so with the express intent of soon leaving for industry. For at least some of the teachers to have industry experience (about half of them did) was invaluable for the students. Whether or not that experience was relevant for when they were hired, I can't say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-42189743390344518672008-05-01T15:49:00.000-07:002008-05-01T15:49:00.000-07:00I think it is both amusing and sad that having any...I think it is both amusing and sad that having any kind of work experience in the fields which your students can expect to be employed is completely absent from this list.C W Mageehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09706100504739548720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-24081831954535859752008-05-01T07:20:00.000-07:002008-05-01T07:20:00.000-07:00Ron - yes, I agree. That's not something that I've...Ron - yes, I agree. That's not something that I've done when I've been a candidate, and if I were a department chair, I don't think that I would like be called by every single candidate, but I know of cases where a call like that made a candidate stand out. I would add that a candidate should read all the public stuff on the web site <I>before</I> making this kind of call - the candidate should be informed.<BR/><BR/>I think that asking those kinds of questions is really important before a job interview, though.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738706550175991130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-60777405576753836652008-05-01T07:02:00.000-07:002008-05-01T07:02:00.000-07:00The private SLACs that I've known choose their dea...The private SLACs that I've known choose their deans from their own faculty. That made sure that they were invested in the institution.<BR/><BR/>The web makes it a lot easier to find out about jobs than it used to be. (Though sometimes department web pages are out of date.)Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738706550175991130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-21491303475726274412008-05-01T06:36:00.000-07:002008-05-01T06:36:00.000-07:00I'd like to suggest one more thing to add to the l...I'd like to suggest one more thing to add to the list, but it needs to be done delicately. Before you apply, consider calling the search chair or another faculty member and asking if there's anything that the department is particularly concerned about among the job qualifications listed in the job ad, and whether there are any other concerns that might not have made it into the job ad that the committee might also consider. Understand that the search chair and committee members may have nothing to add or may not feel comfortable discussing details with potential applicants and be prepared to leave it at that if they don't volunteer additional information. Your call (if you handle it professionally) will indicate that you are keenly interested in this particular department and job, and may unearth hidden agendas or specific concerns that were not evident in the published job ad. Remember, you're not muckraking - just trying to get the search chair or faculty members to elaborate on what's already public and what they personally feel are the most important qualifications of the applicant. Knowing what to emphasize in your application packet can go a long way to separating yourself from the crowd.Ron Schotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10020094512548523216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-11673836948334696322008-05-01T04:58:00.000-07:002008-05-01T04:58:00.000-07:00I'd second that bit about researching the school y...I'd second that bit about researching the school you're interested in. One of the first questions they asked me when I was interviewing for my position at NOVA was "How do you see your interests supporting the College's mission?" This is a great question -- because it tests to see if you know WHAT the College's mission is, as well as asking the candidate about themself! So: candidates should spend some time browsing the school's website and whatnot, and have some specific understanding to display when they're in the spotlight of an interview.<BR/><BR/>Kim, I've really enjoyed these posts too -- this process is (perhaps intentionally) ill-defined and blurry from the perspective of candidates, and it helps to have some insider advice. Not everyone's lucky enough to have a research advisor who can also act as a career advisor, so the web's a great way to communicate some of these basic ideas. Thanks!Callan Bentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15422791444429372896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563205518828267408.post-37413673702671188912008-04-30T22:39:00.000-07:002008-04-30T22:39:00.000-07:00I appreciate these posts. I want to second the ide...I appreciate these posts. I want to second the idea of learning about the institution you are applying to. I have "enjoyed" the process of sifting through dozens of applicants, and I was put off to the point of eliminating otherwise good candidates when they showed little evidence of having researched the school they were applying to. It takes a lot of work, especially if you are trying to get a teaching job, period, and are working on multiple applications. But it is worth the effort every time. <BR/><BR/>My last couple of search committees actually involved dean positions, and one of my peeves was that the school embarked on what they called a "nationwide" search. That brought in a lot of applications from around the country from people who knew nothing about our school, and were essentially career climbers who saw our school as a rung in the ladder. They have great qualifications, but I never felt they had our best interests at heart. And they tend not to stay long.Garry Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00531226195147986457noreply@blogger.com